_herrinite wrote on May 28, 2008 9:02 AM:
" Here's an idea...cancell ALL athletics at SIUC until the school gets serious about being a quality educational institution. It doesn't matter if the stadium is a thousand years old or not, as long as there is mediocrity or worse at SIUC, the enrollment is going to drop and quality faculty will leave to go to real institutions of learning. "
fraydog wrote on May 22, 2008 1:15 PM:
" On the contrary citizen, SIU has a lot of students who go in and out, who don't take it seriously. Look at our graduation rates if you need confirmation of that.
Save the personal attacks next time. "
Citizen wrote on May 21, 2008 8:36 AM:
"
Fraydog,
You are way over your head. Your comments are either irrelevant, meaningless, or trivial.
Now to say that SIU "has not brought in good students"?????
If I were one of the 16,000 plus students at SIU, I believe I would take great exception to your observation.
As stated, you do not have a clue. "
fraydog wrote on May 20, 2008 11:53 PM:
" There are a lot of reasons why SIU isn't achieving its potential... but athletics has very little to do with it IMO. People on the academic side of the school have failed to market it properly, they've done a poor job at bringing good students in. Also, the school has failed to lobby for any sort of money.
I just wouldn't say it's all athletics fault. There's plenty of blame to go around between faculty and administration. "
bugler wrote on May 20, 2008 8:06 PM:
" Maybe "Just Sayin" could do a little more "Just Thinkin" or "Just Findin out Facts." I have pointed out to him/her elsewhere that football costs a lot. If you really think that money makes the world go round, you should pay attention to the realities of money.
Wilfred Reilly, author of "Ball Fair," the Paul Simon Institute paper on the cost of sports in academia, quotes some numbers. The latest figures for SIU show that our men's basketball team brought in $851,891 in NCAA distributions. Our television contract was worth $23,350. Basketball-focused alumni donations amounted to $139,528.
The basketball team spent $590,000 on scholarships and salaries. Overall, the team lost $107,184 despite being the main beneficiary of $3,473,081 in student fees. So in real money terms it lost three and a half million dollars.
You "Just Say" that "there is plenty of data to support the fact that when Athletics is successful, the university as a whole is successful. " Could we see some of that data? And could it possibly explain why SIUC's enrollments have continued to decline when basketball and football have been at their most successful?
In fact you "Just Say" a lot of nonsense. "Athletics works very hard to bring in the required monies to fund their projects" -- by raising tuition and student fees? You continue "every time someone donates a large amount of money to Athletics in particular," and I stopped reading there. Did you see (above) how much the alumni donated to basketball last year? As Reilly has pointed out,
typically "alumni pay only 2 percent of the operating expenses of an average university." And they pay a lot less at SIUC.
These facts are available to anybody. Is "Just Sayin" ignoring the facts? Or are you "Just Lyin"?
"
BagLady wrote on May 20, 2008 4:24 PM:
" Ah, another case of the “inmates running the institution.” Oh, but wait a minute…this is SIU a place of confusion and no adults in charge. That's to say that the "inmates are running the institution". "
cchs98 wrote on May 20, 2008 1:46 PM:
" SIUC or SIU??? Are you kidding me? Moron "
noname wrote on May 20, 2008 12:35 PM:
" An article in the Chronicle of Higher Education (2/14/05) said that two of the main causes of violence on campus is a "sports culture" and the second was alcohol. The sports culture promoted aggressiveness toward minorities and women. Why in the world would SIU want to promote this aggressive sports culture with an aggrandizement of contact sports? The stadium, Saluki Way, Dawg Tags, and the excessive coach salaries all point that this is the path that SIU is taking. "
Tsk, Tsk wrote on May 20, 2008 10:40 AM:
" A more accurate headline would have been "If you build it at the overburdened taxpayer’s expense..." But then, when did SIU or Dr. Poshard ever worry about us? In fact we are, thanks to Dr. Tax-n-Spend, paying taxes in Marion for the Rent One corporate-welfare ball park. "
Citizen wrote on May 20, 2008 8:03 AM:
" To "fraydog",
Call it however you want (SIU or SIUC), the "flagship" appears to be sinking.
By the way, I believe I am "educated" about SIU--three degrees and thousands of hard-earned dollars spent.
I paid for this education with menial jobs and spent many years acquiring these degrees through hard work and sacrifice.
I would prefer that my degrees actually meant something--that they represented a world class academic experience. Whether SIU has a multi-million dollar sports complex has very bearing on the value of these hard-earned degrees.
You argument about SIU or SIU-C is trivial and meaningless. Do y0u not have anything constructive to comment on? "
fraydog wrote on May 19, 2008 11:26 PM:
" First of all, can't some of you people at least refer to SIU as SIU and not SIUC? Some of you are supposed to be educated about SIU... only SIU school with a four letter designation is SIUE. SIU is the flagship.
I question how much some of you actually know when you can't even get the basic details right. "
noname wrote on May 19, 2008 11:29 AM:
" Apparently the Southern Illinoisan has taken the role of propaganda machine for the SIUC athletic department. I am already proud of the many intelligent thoughtful students and SIUC graduates that I have come to know. I do not need to see a stadium to be proud of them. What a poor statement. SIUC is its people not a brand,not an athletic team,not a stadium, nor hoisting a beer in bar and screaming "dawgs". This university which is suppose to be a light to its many students is being reduced to a tv commercial aimed at selling a made up product that may not deliver any more than a poor charade
of what a college education should be. "
Fred wrote on May 19, 2008 10:32 AM:
" Just Saying' - you are right on; unfortunately, those in the academia setting are never going to accept it. They never have and they never will. And they are the ones that have the ears of the students. "
Grayson wrote on May 19, 2008 10:29 AM:
"
Hello Just Sayin':
Wow! You have given me a great deal to think about.
Perhaps the one point that you have made that achieves the greatest "resonance" with me is the commitment of the coaching staff to the student's overall development--both academically and through those unquantifiable results categorized as life skills--fairness, honesty, learning to lose with integrity and learning to win with honor.
Thank you so much for your response. I am always open to countervailing opinions--especially when rationally and persuasively presented.
"
Fred wrote on May 19, 2008 10:24 AM:
" Just Saying' - you are right on; unfortunately, those in the academia setting are never going to accept it. They neve have and they never will. "
Marion Rez wrote on May 19, 2008 10:08 AM:
" I like sports. I love sports, especially college sports. And I'm all for the Salukis. But, come on. SIU isn't in the Big Ten, Big Twelve, or SEC. Do we REALLY need or want to spend millions upon millions of dollars on brand new athletic facilities? Now, I admit and recognize that McAndrew and the arena need some updates and renovation. But, I question whether or not a brand new football stadium is really necessary. If they're willing to just renovate the arena, why can't McAndrew just be renovated. And the last time I checked, there were more than a few academic buildings and facilities on campus that need some major work. Why are we putting football and basketball stadiums before everything else???
I think the current on-line poll is telling. Most people around here wish to see SIU succeed in athletics. But at what cost? It seems to me that Saluki athletics have been doing quite well in the facilities we currently have. "
Just Sayin' wrote on May 18, 2008 3:57 PM:
" With all due respect, I think the people in charge of the project probably have a little more insight as to what is priority.
Grayson, I agree with 95% of your comments on these forums and always look forward to your posts; I think you always strive to be fair about any given subject but I have to disagree with your take on this one.
There is plenty of evidence out there concerning athletics and their importance to the university as a whole. People need to stop pitting one against the other, it's unproductive and simply causes strife where there should be none. As a university, "we're all in this together" is a much better approach.
Athletics works very hard to bring in the required monies to fund their projects....and every time someone donates a large amount of money to Athletics in particular, acadamia starts with the verbal attacks about how worthless Athletics is and that their buildings are falling down and the roof is leaking, etc., and the money should be given to some other department. Now, when someone donates money to say the College of Business, for example, how ridiculous would it be for the Athletic Administration to claim the money should be given to them istead?! Believe me, this is a reality. In addition, every cent appropriated to Athletics is resented by those who simply have no interest in athletics and it's just not fair to the student athlete.
There is plenty of data to support the fact that when Athletics is successful, the university as a whole is successful. Nobody in Athletics thinks their department is MORE important than any other on campus. . .but they are certainly AS important as the rest and I think its time we all take the blinders off and realize it.
As repugnant as it may seem to "acadamia," filthy lucre makes the world go round. When Athletics is successful, more funds come in. Saluki Way is an investment that will benefit the entire university. A former coach shared with me once that when he coached in one of the larger conferences, they were so successful for a number of years that their football team donated their "bowl appearance money" (just over 1 million dollars) to the library for their new facility. I realize we are not in the same league but it is what we should all be striving for - to make the university stronger financially so we can continue to grow & offer an excellent education to those who choose SIU. To be so short-sighted as to think it's money wasted is a real shame.
The graduation rates of student-athletes far exceed those of the general student population. The coaches and athletic administrators work longer hours than 95% of the rest of the workforce at SIU and I'm really tired of the way they are disparaged by professors who are insulted if you ask them to spend one hour of their own time to meet with a prospective student. If these same professors and administrators worked half as hard as those in Athletics to cultivate relationships with prospective donors, their buildings wouldn't be falling down. There are some major attitude problems that need to be dealt with in acadamia. "
Member#1 wrote on May 18, 2008 12:19 PM:
" I still think the order of construction is all wrong. Salukie Way needs money. The way to get money is via the basketball program. A NEW ARENA with all chair seats and boxes could significantly improve revenue and in turn help pay for the football stadium. The football stadium will never pay for itself and would be a financial drain on the rest of the athletic program. "
noname wrote on May 18, 2008 12:15 PM:
" No, the students won't. Our regional students will continue to drive right past SIUC to John Logan because it is simply cheaper "
Grayson wrote on May 18, 2008 7:46 AM:
" Ther once was a time that SIU-C represented an excellent value.
The working poor and middle class could get a world class education at a reasonable cost.
President Morris recruited world class scholars to head the Departments and the emphasis was on education--not entertainment.
SIU-C needs to get its priorities straight. Institutions of higher learning should be just that.
SIU must "rededicate" itself to the goals of providing a great education at a reasonable cost and building a healthier and more productive society.
SIU--where have you gone? "
Charlie1935 wrote on May 18, 2008 6:25 AM:
" Seems to me that athletics has passed education as the main purpose of universities now days. "
